10 responses to “Where are they? / 어디로 싣고 갔나?”

1. ce n’est qu’un debut. continuouns le combat
   slogan of May, 1968, Paris
   but can be that of Thailand, May 2010

   Yuki ung shows us what is really going on. And shames much of them who is called JOURNALISTS AND MEDIA WORKERS

2. Wonderful slogan, Max!

   Merci, Danke, Thank for encouraging me..^^..

   bisous

3. if you think you feel sorry for the red shirts, perhaps you don’t know who is behind all of this and should check your facts properly. why don’t you ask yourself ‘why are these people detained?’ they are not innocent like the media had portrayed them to be. they act vulnerable in front of cameras, but in fact they were paid to do this they were paid to risk lives for one greedy guy and his family. the govt is bad through foreigner’s POV, however, hearing from just one side (the red shirts) of the story doesn’t cut it.

   before you wonder, get your facts right first.

4. Thank for your comment Niki.

   The question here is very simple. It’s not about whether these people were ‘innocent’ or not. That would be a judiciary job primarily, of course, in fair and facts-based, not biased as we’ve seen often & disturbingly. That might be also relevant to political debate in a sense.

   Don’t get anyone wrong regarding these blindfolded prisoners. Question is about humanity, specificially ‘treatment of prisoners’. Let’s read and respect the Third Geneva Convention regarding Prisoners of War (POW), who should be treated humanely. Yet these Red prisoners were not even prisoners of ‘war’, but protesters.

   You wrote they act vulnerable in front of camera. Do you think they even would know if there were cameras or which photographer took whom while their eyes were blindfolded…? In fact, they didn’t make any movement other than ‘lie down’ or ‘sit up’, seemingly to the ‘order’ of armed forces during hours. I’ve seen some soldiers were giving a few drops of water to the prisoners. I’ve also seen a police put his military boots on one of the prisoners’ belly and pressed a bit. The appearances of prisoners had been totally blank or expressionless for hours. They were absolutely vulnerable indeed as they could see nothing but hearing in dark, waiting uncertain future.

   Now we don’t know where they were brought to, how they have been treated. Raising concern and pressuring the authority to reveal imperative informations of them and humanitarian treatment never enough.

   It has truely (again ‘truely’) appalled me that some parts of society in Thailand try to think what happened in recent weeks were destined for Red Shirts, or Red Shirts deserve this kind of treatment and army assault using live rounds. Because they were branded ‘terrorists’.

   Seems…Land of smile getting lost and Land of hatred getting winning

   Penseur21

5. Dear Sir,

   I’m Thai who have observed the situation by myself, received any information from Thai and international sources. I know that there is some hidden agenda behind Thai media, why they must or need to be bias.

   For example; The Nation, it had the conflict in ITV free channel case in Thailand against Thaksin, when he was still in his power. Then, they go against him all the time and supported PAD (Anti-Thaksin protestors). After the military coup, ITV case went to court justice (assign by the coup), then its concession was confiscated and turned back to the government. Then the government hired The Nation for 2000 Mio. Baht per years to run this media in name TPBS. So that is what they receive to follow the government.

   For the other media, as I have known some journalists and moderators working on Thai free TV, three persons I known have been intimidated to report the news in the direction that the government please. One of them was called by the military officer who asked him to choose between his family and the direction he report the news.

   Accordingly, I must recheck it and research more before trust it, when I watch or read the news. I’ve found a lot of information that Thai media never presented and some that they exaggerate more than the real situation and make the conclusion by themselves without the crucial evidence to support. In my opinion, most Thai media have the conspiracy. It’s necessary for them in order to survive.

   We can see a lot of examples, that some Thai who believe Thai media and government’s propaganda try to insult every organizations such as HRW BBC CNN MEPs and other international organization s who inform what they don’t like that they don’t know the truth as them. (How do they know, what they think is true or false when they never open their mind to learn the difference?) .Moreover they claim that those media is bias or receive money from someone they against.

   By the way the censorship in Thailand creates an effective propaganda by telling one-sided stories. People in Thailand don’t have chance to receive variety of information for their consideration. Now, it’s worse because the court said that, from now on, who publish the media and information against the government that means they distort the incident and must go to jail.

   For how Abhisit came to power, I will tell you in sequence.
   Four years ago, the country was led by Thaksin, a billionaire populist who was twice re-elected. A deeply divisive figure loved by the rural poor and loathed by the country’s elite. The PAD – anti Thaksin movement, mostly the elite and middle class who lost their benefit to the poor, rallied for so long time and then the military coup came to dispel Thaksin government.

   Then the coup’s government felt to rule the country. They issued new constitution which a lot of unlawful article to protect themselves and disadvantage their political foes. They assigned their new supported group of officers to work in judgment and court system. After that, they let the condition: if we didn’t accept this constitution, there‘s no new election and they could apply worse constitution as they please. So the majority accepted it with the fear for worse rule and hope for new election.

   After an election, PPP; pro Thaksin party; unexpectedly won again with 233 seats from 480 seats. While Democrat gained 165 seats. So PPP had right to form the government. Then The PAD can’t accept the result, blamed that they bought vote (In fact, every other parties in Thailand also buy vote included Democrat party).They closed the street for 7 months , seized the government house for 3 months and Thai international airports about a week in total, and they didn’t ask for democratic solutions but only wanted to expel whoever who support Thaksin out of their power.

   They didn’t want common election but just raised the one they preferred to get in power. Moreover they also have dangerous ideas against democracy. For example; the one so- called “70/30” which means 70% of representatives in parliament should come from an assignment of the committee contained of experts, academic professors or other selected elites and the other 30% come from an election. Another example is the idea to prohibit normal citizens who don’t hold academic degrees to vote in an election because they believe that the low-educated people are too stupid to choose a good leader.

   After long protest, the court, as the tool, banned all 3 parties on government side which affected these parties’ executive committees out of the position as representatives. They also made the other politicians go against PPP. Some of formal PPP members turned to Democrat side. Consequently, the proportion of the parliament was changed. Then they brought the parties’ leaders to the military Barracks to lobby them with or without force up to cases. So people can imply that they used dirty tools to form the government. And that is how the new government lead by Democrat came to power.

   Some of his supporters claim that Abhisit and his coalition came from the same parliament. It’s half-true because he took his power after he got rid of his opponents. So this is the difference between an elected one and a person who come to power by dirty elimination of his foes.

   – How they use the court to unbalance the sovereignty?
   – How they intimidate the other politicians?
   – Is the negotiation in the military barrack to form the new government the right thing for democracy?

   For the demonstration, I think we should know the root of problem first. The problem is not Thaksin or some few people.

   Some foreigners call this crisis as “social class war”. In fact, it isn’t exactly “social class war” or political difference, but the crackdown of Thai society. Yes, it’s about the different between rich and poor but in the abstract way. What the poor want is the acceptation and equal chance for their life. The poor don’t care much how much money they can gain but they want the acceptation from the rich ones.

   The situation in Thailand is about the people’s attitude that separated into 2 directions. “Think as Rich or poor ones”. The rich, as they call themselves the middle class, try to insult that the poor is greedy and stupid, so they don’t accept the poor’s votes or decisions. In contradiction; the poor have their grudge against what the so-called rich people look down on them. They stole the poor right and blame them again and again.

   The person, no matter class they are, if they agree and pay sympathetic for the poor will be claimed as the fool one and will be pushed to that political side, although they’ve no interest in political issue.( I also have that experience.)

   So I think the trend of Thai society now is the isolation and discrimination between people’s hearts, which strong enough to eliminate ones who think different out of society. Even if it may costs people’s lives, some don’t feel guilty about it at all.

   For the acceptation and chance, Taksin was an idol for the poor because he is the first one who gave it down to them. He didn’t give the budget for them freely but use strategies to make them try to work and have their praise. For example, he gave them the legal loan for their investment or payment. Before his time, the government had never concerned that the poor never allowed having debt with the formal financial institutes because they don’t have enough asset to guarantee. With the illegal ones, they must pay for very high interest rate. So forget about the investment or have their own business. It’s very hard for the poor to improve their status and quality of life by themselves. Even if they have similar ability as the richer one.

   When Thaksin gave the chance to them, he also made the conditions. If you borrow the money and you can’t pay back in time, you’ll never receive it again. So it stimulates the people to work for themselves. At the same time he improved the healthcare and education in rural areas, made the stand-alone brand “OTOP” for the rural ones. So they can work, create and have pride with their works.

   In contradiction, Abhisit gives the money, too. This is with more “popularity” policy without repayment. But he gives just only money not the chance. He gives money but he still looks down of them by his speeches and actions. For the investment and financial policies he usually gives the priority to the big enterprises not the small or middle ones.

   I think the corruption issue is also significant. But no only Thaksin who corrupted ; in fact; so do the members of Democrat .The Democrat play the most corruption in Thai history but they never blame what they did and the elite back-up help them to cover it with the law distortion and media. There’s no sanction for every politician ‘s corruptions except Thaksin’s.

   Have you ever heard about the cases such as Thai BIBF , Hopewell project, Miyazawa project or the land right case so-called “ Sor-Por-Gor 4-01 “corrupted by Democrat? And do you know what the former Prime minister Chuan’s brother cheated from the bank in last financial crisis. I persuade you to dig down about them a bit then you can find the true. And now they also corrupt nonstop!

   The court have sentenced Thaksin for 2 years in prison but I have read the reason and it isn’t directly told that he corrupt but just only against the morality as the prime minister and help his alliance to gain profit from his policies as same as another normal people (yet no prove to support).

   For the other most popular accusation is that Thaksin and Redshirt want to overthrow the king. I think that is a very silly issue. I believe that most of UDD respect the king and never drag the king down as the other group did. Yes, there’re some few people who don’t respect to the monarchy but not the whole of the group. It’s different between “disrespect” and “overthrow “. And if they blame that Thaksin has this kind of idea, they should have the solid evidence not just only the connection between him and the others.

   In cyber world, you may find that most Thai are against Redshirt. It is so normal, because they are in the educational class. For the poor they have too few ways to discuss which these guys in especially international forums and for the most middle class who think different, they just keep it in mind. It’s dangerous to their social positions. For me, I also have an effect that some of my friends saw what I’ve commented here and gossip about me or try to isolate me. But I don’t care much about it because I’m also sick of that kind of society.

   The education in Thailand also makes the gap between people’s minds. In the universities, a lot of professors talk about politic in classes. In their cafeterias, only pro-government TV channels are broadcasted. The student are programmed that they are prestige and smart so that it’s their right to run the country and this is their kindness given for the poor one.( without asking them ,if they like it or not).

   For the education, that the middle class guys usually claim that the poor and rural persons are uneducated. I think it isn’t true.
   How much education we need to understand politic?
   In fact, Thai literacy rate is about 95%. That means almost everyone can read and receive any information they want. And so-called “Educated” in Democracy means how much you understand about democracy, right, freedom and another political nature.
   As you see, some of people who claim themselves as “educated “ones, can’t understand about these kinds of issues better than the poor ones. So, that is how the problem goes in Thailand.

   For the demonstration, I think that they both make the violence but who stir it first.

   From March to 8th April, the protestors had really peaceful demonstration. Meanwhile, both sides had the negotiation but couldn’t come to an agreement because they couldn’t accept the conditions from the oppositions.

   The first serious incident happened when the government seized the media station of the redshirt without the court procedure but used the military instead. The protestors came to Thaicom Station to ask it back but they received the tear gas booms and rubber bullets instead.

   Next day, the protestors had the demonstration outside the parliament but suddenly, the government thrown the tear gas boom to the protestors. Some of them were angry and tried to break into the parliament. After the negotiation, 20 people could get into the parliament to ask for the reason and responsibility but received no answer. The vice prime minister, Mr. Sutep , who took the responsibility had already gone.

   After that the government used this incident to claim the state of emergency and forced the law.

   10th April 2010, the government claim that it wanted to ask for the space of Ratchaprasong back from the protestors. But the military with heavy weapons was ordered to troop to Phan Fah Intersection.( At that time, the protest located at two places, the smaller group was at Phan Fah Intersection and the bigger group with main UDD leaders was at Ratchaprosong Intersection). The first protestor was shot by real bullet in the afternoon following with the several in the twilight. The mass killing happened around 8-9 pm. In conclusion, 25 people dead and more that 800 people injured. This is the news from the following morning.

   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8612783.stm

   After that incidence the next round negotiation got cancel.
   Is that the fault of the protester to have anger against the government after their friends were killed and injured as a consequence by the government action?

   28th April, again the government used the military with heavy weapons. The result is the death of a soldier by “friendly fire”.

   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8648109.stm

   The government used the video from Aljazeera to claim and rerun several times on Thai media that the one who shot the soldier was redshirt. (Who wore black but, in fact, have the similar uniform as the special police.) After that the Aljazeera report against the government announcement that it’s misinformation and distortion.

   http://blogs.aljazeera.net/asia/2010/05/01/shot-had-huge-impact

   4th May, Abhisit announced his Roadmap and 5 May the UDD received it s principle but asked for the detail and confirmation. PAD was against it and warned that they would have arranged the rally if the roadmap had been applied.

   For the Roadmap
   Abhisit promised that with his speech (but his speeches usually were altered and forgotten what when the time past). So the UDD accept it with their speech, too. If the government wants the action from UDD side, it should act first. On the other hand, the government added more and more soldiers, cut the infrastructure in the protester area and trooped to kill them ,then call the peaceful roadmap.

   When the speech is 180 degrees off the action, what could we call that? A lie?

   I suggest to let every parties sign the ratification long ago. Because it is the way to entrust that the Roadmap is the real not just the propaganda to buy the time. In addition, after Abhisit ‘s speech, there’s no evidence to show that this Roadmap can be successful. PAD went against it. Some Democrat member didn’t approve it. The Election Commission said that the prime minister had never consulted it first for his guarantee about new election with them. And they’ve never seen the document about it.

   Moreover he has no right to issue new election date. It’s the Election Commission authority. His authority is only dissolve the parliament; promise the date about it then the law and other officer will drive the other step to new election automatically.
   So why didn’t Abhisit make what he can make. Not promise the thing he can’t do.
   Is it difficult to do the direct thing than the reticent one?
   If both sides have any other request, just come to open talk .Eye to eye…side by side…to make a negotiation then agreement.

   I see this kind of situation compare to the trading situation. The Government sells their roadmap, the UDD‘s interested in it but don’t please enough about some conditions. So if they don’t come to talk and make a bargain, the trade isn’t success. If they talk and can come to the conclusion, then they both must sign the contract. After that, the government (the seller) must show their product and hand it to the UDD( buyer) ,at the same time the buyer must pay for the goods.

   The situation was on hold. The government announced that unless the protestors accept the roadmap without any conditions before 15th May, the government considered using military force to disperse the demonstration.

   The problem is that 12th May, Red shirt general got shot and dead after that.

   14th May, the Crackdown began before the deadline.

   15th May, live fire zone was announced.
   The soldiers shot live bullets (most from snipers or rifles) to everyone they can shoot; most of dead and injured ones didn’t have any weapon or tried to harm the soldiers. (Included journalists, normal citizens, nurses, police etc.) And a few protestors had only cocktail bomb, homemade bombs or shotgun.

   These are the evidences :

   http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1469377857410&ref=mf

   http://www.reporterinexile.com/

   Afternoon 19th May, the UDD leader surrendered to the police but the shooting game of the soldiers continued. Evening the existing protestors ceased fire.

   I used to say long ago that I’m against all kind of the violence because the violence causes the other violence (as action and reaction)
   At the end this brings only tragedy. I think this is the result of violence from the government for the past whole month. So after long endurance, they can’t endure it any longer. Under the stress, fear and wrath, you can predict what will happen for the people under the circumstance.

   However there’s something I can’t clearly understand, after the surrender of UDD leaders, the situation is uncontrolled, the person who raised the incident after that can be anyone which you can’t identify. From the VDO clip you can only see most people ran away, some people around the burnt down building with anger, few are creasing fire with tires. But this one can’t use as the evidence to tell who is the redshirts, who is normal people who (may be) the third party.

   Beside, as I consider about the timeline and the position, at that time the UDD leader had already surrendered to the police and the military could control the most of that area. They can troop to the Pratumwanaram Temple really near by the Central World. Moreover we know that the protesters are friendlier with the police but why did all the officers just concentrate to arrest the protesters but no action to control the fire, if they use so lots of the troop, police and bring the fire trucks or at least let them into the burnt down area (There’re some firemen who were ready in change but they must wait for a long time because the military didn’t let them in.) The situation will be better. So why did they ignore about that fact?

   For me, I turned to be more interested in redshirt movement after the black Songkran last year. Before that I never thought to take a side and never care whether red or yellow. But after Abhisit came to power, he not only can’t fulfill his promise but also make it worse. The government holds the judgment procedure of the PAD make an excuse that they’re too many personal witnesses. Now we can see how fast the process of the UDD’s ,even though there’re many more witnesses to ask and prove. And then, the crackdown on black Songkran with I could see the evidence from the other media and the eyewitness my uncle who live in Nanglerng district were very different for what the government report. So I try to research it by myself.

   Last, I can’t stand the society that has no mercy for the lack of human right , cruel people who never care about the other’s lives and using ironic words to blame the other without looking back to themselves.
   So, I agree with redshirt‘s principle but never support the hardcore and violence. However I analyze it as cause and result. Why are things happened? What is the motivation? And that is all of my opinion.

   Thank you for your understanding and sympathy to all Thai.

6. Thank you very much for your painstaking writting, Muupan.

   It is quite beyond what I posted above regarding ‘prisoners’ though, it’s always good to read one’s view and efforts to be informative. As you wrote the recent development choronically, some of visitors would get picture in easy and quick as to what’s happening in Thailand.

   wish your friends and family r all safe…

   Penseur21

7. ANY NEWS OF CORNELL PURCELL ? (SIC) THE AUSTRALIAN X-SOLDIER WHO REPORTED FACTS FOR THE THAI PEOPLE ? AND WAS LAST REPORTED ARRESTED BY THE THAI REACTIONARIES ?

8. Thank you for your comment and your sincerity for me, my family and also all Thai.
   In fact, I am just one of a powerless citizen. I also afraid of a confrontation in real life. Even if I experience something unsuitable, I’m not brave enough to speak loud against the power in Thai society . For this comment I admit that I also have a bits bias as a normal human.
   However I try to analyze the situation by using logic instead of negative emotion.

   I want to be one small point of my society to explain what happened to the world.( Yes, also all Thai friends, if they want to listen.) I want to speak for the poor who have so few chance to speak to the world. (And if you see, not every poor are stupid as the rich claim. They have their own ideas . Some attitudes’re really mature. This is one of the VDO clip I invite you to see. The voice of the poor hardly reach the outside world just only because they can’t speak English and there’re to few educated Thai who care about what they say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsh225KsfZU )

   The milestone is that I want people to understand the root of the problem and use the reasonable way to solve it. For the foreigners, I think you could help us, too. If you understand and don’t forget the problem when the time past as if it is the flow of the wind. So could I ask you, foreigners , to keep a eye on what happen next?

   The riot seems to be ended but it isn’t actually end because the procedure of the government to treat the people who think different still continue against human right. Moreover the people’s attitudes have more gap between one another after this last unrest.

   Now, Mr. Abhisit arrest everyone who have connection with the redshirt ,although there’s no evidence to prove ,if they’re the one who take part in the last unrest or not.

   The Roadmap is also canceled and Abhisit announced that the commeon election won’t be arranged in this years for sure.

   The last news …
   The woman known as the last red shirt protester who sit at the main rally site after the crackdown of the demonstation by Thai military forces, Ms. Pasadee Namkam , is still missing. Her
   relatives report that she’s never returned home since then. As for the news, she also works as a nurse and helped the injured protesters at the camp. She’s one of several missing persons after the crackdown.(now upto 40 persons according to the report)
   Here is a news from local newspapers.
   
   and here is her last photo at UDD camp.
   

   regards,
   Muupan Tang

9. I’ve cried many time when I saw all this pics, it’s hurt it’s true but hv no one care them….. Long Live the People!

10. Dear Thaiman,

    Thnx for your comment.

    Ya, I’m sure many Thais & non-Thais must have cried, disturbed and outraged as to what was happening those days AND nowadays. My belief, conscience and principle go on sympathetic with you, people.

    Penseur21

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